Great post, thanks for the comments. AT

No problem. Do I get a gold star?

It is important for people to think about these things though. I am absolutely, 100%, a religious, God fearing person. So I do believe. But it must be a personal discovery.

Silver_and_Jade_Tears God is able, and willing, but man must first give up his pride and selfishness and depend on a higher being. Thanks for the thoughts. However, if God is both willing to do something and able to do it yet does not because of a human choice, does that not make God a puppet of his creation? It puts God reacting to us.

To be honest, I don't think he's reacting to us, but rather by letting us choose, he shows his love for us.

He loves us because we are his children.

A parent of a child wants to keep that child away from harm as best as possible,
However that parent knows that that child will make mistakes, and he/she will be hurt,
Instead of protecting the child from every mistake, the parent lets the child make some of these mistakes,
and so the child learns from them.

Peace,

Beebes

Brenda Holiday

I walked out of the hospital three days later fine and healthy.

Wow! That is amazing! Thanks for sharing this great story of yours!

I think if people want to know about God they will ask you.

I know many people who are put out by evangelism and "sharing their faith." However, should Chrisitans determine what they do by what they think or by the Bible?
I really appriciate your comments, I love to read how other people view things. Thanks!
AT

BlueDev

Do I get a gold star?

Sure do! Well...uh...I'm a little short on gold stars at the moment, how about a party smilely face?

Death_By_Beebles

Instead of protecting the child from every mistake, the parent lets the child make some of these mistakes, and so the child learns from them.

Well done. I think a great text for that would be Hosea 11. Thanks!
AT

Hey there Jeremy! It's great to see you on here. I don't have anything smart to say, but I love you. That is all.

Prove God does not exist, and I will then prove that he does.

Who is to say that the big bang is not the handiwork of a greater diety? Evolution merely a tool for a higher power? Who are we to know the mind and will of the universe? To define God is to be obtusely arrogant, to deny the possibility of God is ignorance defined.

It takes as much faith to say that God doesn't exist as it does to say He does exist. Science CANNOT say that God doesn't exist, or it ceases to be science. You can say that you have no proof for God, you can say that based upon what we know you don't BELIEVE in God. You cannot, though, say accurately that there is no God, unless you have a complete grasp of the universe and everything in it. Period.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

The problem with this riddle is that it leaves out 'Free Will'. God cannot interfere, or he destroys our free will.

Apparenlty you have never heard of tough love. I sure as hell hope you are not raising children, or we will have a bunch of spoiled brats, or thugs roaming our streets.

"Proof" is not neccessary to those that want to believe, only to those that don't want to

Excellant response and the answer to the thread's question! As Kierkegaard said, you can only go so far in proving God Exists. Then you must make a leap of faith.

My challenge to you (and anyone who wants) is to disprove the existence of God.

That's exactly it...

I choose to believe, so I see evidence of God everywhere...in circumstances in my own life to just things in nature. Take pregnancy for instance. What are the chances that cells that we can't see with the eye are going to meet up and make the beginnings of a baby? And then, after that, what are the chances that the embryo is going to implant itself in a place where it will be able to grow? And then...for all the things that can go wrong, birth defects, miscarriage, etc., look at how many babies arrive healthy and thriving? And then...look at how many of those babies live to a ripe old age and have babies of their own?

Its amazing to me. The human body is just something that's the ultimate proof to me that God is there.

My relationship with Him is the ultimate proof to me that God cares, too.

I choose to believe, so I see evidence of God everywhere

As do I Marcie.

The reason I presented the question was simply because as impossible as it is to unequivocally prove God exists, it is just as impossible to prove He doesn't exist. Frankly, I believe that is part of His plan. If there was proof one would not need faith. And without the need to exercise faith, what would be the purpose?

Texas Wahine
Thanks sis! I love you too! Tell Adrian and the boys I love them also. Now, go have fun with your hubby!

d3adz0mbie

Who is to say that the big bang is not the handiwork of a greater diety?

I agree with you here...to some extent. Great thinking.

To define God is to be obtusely arrogant

You lose you me here. If there is no definition, then there is no God.
Thanks for your thoughts!
AT

BakerStreet

It takes as much faith to say that God doesn't exist as it does to say He does exist

Great point. This is where I was going with this topic. Every human system is faith based. The only difference is how some system minimalize the role of faith while others build on it.
AT

Dr. Guy

God cannot interfere, or he destroys our free will.

Cannot or will not? That is the question! Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that God hardened some Pharaoh guys heart...hmm...what do you think?
AT

Marcie Helen

The human body is just something that's the ultimate proof to me that God is there.

Great point! The human body itself is often used as a proof of a God. Thanks for your thoughts!
AT

BlueDev

If there was proof one would not need faith.

Great insight. Proof overides faith. Besides, who needs a God a human can prove?
AT

Your right, techincally, God can't be disproven. Neither can the hypothisis that fluffy pink bunnies roam the skies over some planet in the Alpha Centauri system. Can we make an educated guess as to both? Well, I'm going to put my money on no. However, that is too simple an approach to the question as a whole.

First of all, there must be a distinction made between God and god. Upper-case God generally refers to the God of the Jeudeo-Christo-Muslim deity figure. Lower-case god usually refers to the general concept of a higher being, be it mono- or poly-theistic, Christian, or Alpha Centaurian. This is important, because I find there to be far more evidence against God then god.

As far as God goes, the concept is based on a very all-or-nothing principle of the Bible. Either the whole thing is true and you believe it (of course, 'true' is relative as well, as it does not necissarily mean a literal interpretation of the Bible), or any part is false and you are not Christian. This tends to breed a very insular, non-questioning, xenophobic world-view, as any questioning or attack of the core beliefs is taken as a personal attack on the very core of the self. I find it hard to believe that any being that truely loved the human race would put such a devisive set of rules in place.

Small-g god, however, is different. The possibility of a higher being (perhaps a hyper-evoloved state of a human-like or other intelligent creature) is far more within the realm of reasonable possibility then some being that exists outside of time and space. Also, taken in a liberal manner, god can even be applied to things like the Matrix Theory (a theory that says that if we as a race will ever develop giant simulations of entire worlds and galaxies, chances are that we ourselves are a simulation run by an advanced race in some outside existance.) When god is no longer such a concrete structure, it becomes far more robust and likely.

However, the intelligent design argument in support of religion falls flat on its face right out of the gate. If it is so unrealistic to believe that the general 'stuff' of the universe exists infinitely, and that given an extremely long time, complex structures can arise by chance, then the idea that an omnipotent intelligence pre-dated the most basic forms of matter and energy is a leap of faith to say the least. It really becomes a chicken and egg debate. If the universe is too complex to have been random, it must have been created by god. But god is so complex, how could it have preceded basic elements? And on and on it goes...

Personally, I think that religions in general are giant cults, in essance. They are based on a near-absolute lack of, and in many cases outright suppression of facts, free thought, and logic. The Bible might have been an excelent self-help book in its time, but it has gone entirely too far at this point. Lots of people feel they need answers, and religions are an easy way to get them, true or not. As for how 'miracles' can occur, luckily, logic allows for statistical anomalies. Every event lies along a bell curve of chance, and occasionaly, the bottoms of that curve are hit. Alot of the so-called miracles can also be attributed to genetics or human perseverance. Or just dumb luck.

I remember reading somewhere that God hardened some Pharaoh guys heart...hmm...what do you think?

Yes he did... but perhaps you should read up on that... it's in Exodus... God did that for a reason.

God can interfere, as proven in Exodus, and many other places in the Bible, but for the most part he does not, as that would make the idea of free will absolete.

Whenever he does interfere, prayer went forth before he did, so he was answering a prayer.

SiRMetMan

First of all, there must be a distinction made between God and god.

Here we are discussing God, perhaps god would make another great discussion.

As far as God goes, the concept is based on a very all-or-nothing principle of the Bible.

I disagree with this. God does not rest upon the Bible for validity. Before one believes the Bible, they must first believe in God. Many may disagree with this, perhaps many Christians, but the Bible nowhere tries to prove the exsistence of God.

I find it hard to believe that any being that truely loved the human race would put such a devisive set of rules in place.

That is a good point. However, many look toward all the "thou shalt nots" etc and completely mis the hundreds of times the Bible speaks of unity and peace. Certianly, we have messed this up.

The possibility of a higher being (perhaps a hyper-evoloved state of a human-like or other intelligent creature) is far more within the realm of reasonable possibility then some being that exists outside of time and space.

I find just the opposite to be true. However, both are faith statements. To believe in one or the other is still a believe. Remember, it was you who wrote, "Can we make an educated guess as to both? Well, I'm going to put my money on no." You try to put some educated guesses on something you said cannot really have educated guesses too.

But god is so complex, how could it have preceded basic elements? And on and on it goes...

Exactly my point. Faith has to begin somewhere. Whether it is faith in the "stuff" or faith in "God", it is still faith, neither can be proven. The stuff believers try to reduce the role of faith and the God believers try to enlarge on its role.

Personally, I think that religions in general are giant cults, in essance. They are based on a near-absolute lack of, and in many cases outright suppression of facts, free thought, and logic.

I am sadden to hear you think this. However, I would encourage you to examine your own world view and press it to its nature logical conclusions. Think through all the details. How many facts are suppressed through it, how much "freedom of thought" does it let you have, how logical is it?

I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and would love to read some more! Thanks sharing, I look foward to reading some more of your stuff!

AT

Silver_and_Jade_Tears

Yes he did... but perhaps you should read up on that... it's in Exodus... God did that for a reason.

I've read the story many times thanks. : )

Whenever he does interfere, prayer went forth before he did, so he was answering a prayer.

Okay, I don't really want to get off on a free-will tangent, perhaps another blog. Great thoughts and comments, thanks!
AT